[pmmail-list] [mkc] bcc: Inconvenience

[Steve Marvin]

Not all of this is correct. The SMTP server does not look inside the message
data (should not - I don't know ALL possible SMTP servers) and delete lines.

The way PMMail works is that To: Cc: and Bcc: are placed inside the message
body in the outbox, but when sending the DATA to the SMTP server the Bcc:
header is suppressed.

If you actually send a message with Bcc: header(s) in the message data, it
will arrive at the destination with them still there (can't do this with
PMMail because it strips that header).

Prove it to yourself by drafting a message with Bcc: and run a packet
sniffer or use OS/2's IPTrace while sending it to the server.

Now draft a message without a Bcc: and queuing it in the outbox. Manually
edit with a text editor and add a Bcc: anywhere in the headers. Send
with the packet sniffer on and look at the packets (voila no Bcc:).

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:41:32 -0400 (EDT), Carl Gehr wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:16:43 -0700 (MST), James Moe wrote:
>
>>  That is as it should be. BCC is *BLIND* carbon copy, meaning it cannot be seen. You 
>>only see BCC entries in the compose window. The message in the Sent folder is how it 
>>was sent (and ultimately received), not how it was composed.
>
>No, I disagree.  And, it should not matter which OS.  [And, it does not
>seem to matter for Dave.]
>
>Let's be sure we are all talking about the SAME COPY of a message. 
>There are THREE possibilities:
>
>1) The compose window:  This is BEFORE the message is sent.  There is a
>single window for 'cc' and 'bcc' that alternately displays the
>recipients.  Some to be placed in the transmitted message [cc] and some
>to be 'hidden' [bcc] in the transmitted message.
>
>2) The Sent Mail Folder:  This is where PMMail puts the message
>as/after it is transmitted to the ISP [or Mail server, if you prefer]. 
>This is a complete COPY of what was SENT to the ISP.  It will ONLY have
>the header records that are created by PMMail.  This copy of the
>message has/will not see nor be seen on the Internet.  This copy DOES
>have the 'bcc:' header records and in my OS/2 [and in Dave's Win2K]
>system, viewing the "Full Header" [or the "Full Message"] WILL show
>that header record.  And, an aside, if you are looking at the message
>only in the PMMail viewer, you will not see the 'bcc' list.  You MUST
>either:
>	Window->View Full Header [Ctrl-V]
>	Window->View Full Message [Alt-V]
>or [at least in OS/2]
>	Click the 'toggle' tool-bar icon.
>	  [It's the one that looks like a square with
>	  five small horizontal lines through the top
>          half of the icon.]
>The normal message viewing window/panel does *not* have a 'bcc' field. 
>So, even for this copy, the 'bcc' list will not show without the extra
>'clicks' just mentioned.
>
>3) The copy of the message that has gone out on the network and been
>echoed back to the sender, either because it has the sender in the
>'To:' or the 'cc:' or the 'bcc:' field.  Because this version of the
>message has actually been out on the network [via the ISP's SMTP
>server], it will NOT show the 'bcc:' header record.  The SMTP server
>*looks* at the 'bcc:' record, sends the message to those IDs listed and
>then DELETEs the 'bcc:' and all of the IDs in that record.  Again,
>because this message has been 'transmitted' it will NOT show the BLIND
>copy recipients.  That is, in essence, the definition of 'bcc'.
>
>So, if you are looking at any message in #2 that has a 'bcc' list, you
>should see the list of names.  If you are looking at #1, there are NO
>HEADER records established yet, so the only place you can see anything
>about the recipients is in the cc/bcc window.  And, the #3 copy, should
>NEVER have the 'bcc' list shown no matter what hot-keys or menu items
>you use.
>
>Now, are we all talking about the #2 copies of the message?  Any
>discussion of the others is really not productive in resolving the
>stated problem.
>
>Carl
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