Privacy from whom?

[Bill Wood]

I don't like these he-said-she-said exchanges ... but, just
this once.

+++++

On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 01:48:53 -0400 (EDT), Rodney R. Korte
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Bill Wood wrote:
>
>>Trying to be polite ... during the last century (years
>>beginning with 19) governments were directly responsible for
>>the violent deaths of over 200 million people, with at least
>>two billion hurt and/or their lives ruined, 
>
>Certainly interesting and appalling figures.  Do you have
>figures for the number of people working basically forced
>labor by non-government entities all over the world, even
>in the present day?  Are you aware of this practice?

Paraphrased from the journal of Lazarus Long: "The normal
condition of mankind is abject poverty. But occasionally, every
now and then, by the efforts of only a few people, they are
raised out of this poverty. These few are universally hated and
despised by all right thinking people until they are driven
out. Then mankind reverts back to abject poverty. This is
called, 'bad luck'."

Well, there are a lot of 'bad luck' societies out there and
what you call forced labor is what the working class does to
ward off starvation, and the despicable do-gooders that try to
stop it are dooming millions of people. This argument of yours
doesn't fly.
>
>>                                            mostly the result
>>of socialist governments left carelessly lying around.  Lets
>
>Hmmm.  "left carelessly lying around".  Interesting choice
>of words.  Not sure what you mean.  Intervening to "fix" this
>problem would mean some government involvement that would
>certainly cause more death and carnage.

The last great intervention was WW2 and killed 60M people (and
with many smaller ones since). Would you rather we hadn't
bothered? All of the modern tyrannies were/are derivatives of
socialism. Some familiar ones: Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany,
Communist China, and worst of all, The Soviet Union, that
probably killed over 50M of their own. Some estimates go up to
100M. Socialism is the great evil of the last 150 years, ever
since the times of Marx, and it's still alive and well today.
How this happens is quite straight forward, and is explained
quite thoroughly in 'The Road to Serfdom', by Nobel Laureate
Economist FA Hayek, written in 1944 to explain how all the
promise of socialism had gone so wrong (the answer - it was
inevitable). I suggest your education is not complete until
this book is read.
>
>>see the internet top that. Or corporations, or, even Bill
>>Gates. What nonsense.
>>
>>The problem is governments. Period. Nothing else even comes
>>close.
>
>Not even organized religions?  I'm not belittling what 
>governments have done in the past.  I *do* think that you
>are overstating that "nothing else even comes close", and
>I also think that you have missed my point (and I *know*
>I made this clear):  governments have done this in the
>past because of their unique position with power and 
>resources, but they will not be the only ones in this
>position in the future, in large part because of the 
>Internet.

I can't imagine what you're talking about. I'm talking about
hundreds of millions killed and billions injured, all in less
than 100 years of *modern* history. This is somewhat more than
the Spanish inquisition. There was a Chinese emperor (I seem to
remember hearing about) that killed 40M of his own, but that
was not modern times and I guess he was in fact the government.
As for the internet, with Stalin's power I could eliminate the
internet overnight. Very simple, the infrastructure, which can
not be hidden, is made illegal.

>Besides, governments don't do these things by themselves.
>Governments are eventually people.  And they have been
>trained to think a certain way.  Which all comes back
>to my other original point.

Boy, do you need to study your history a little more. Big Al
conquered about 2/3 of the known world (and tens of millions of
people) with an army of less than 60K, and you may rest assured
that he had his way in all matters. The peril of socialism (I
guess I'll have to get into it ...) is that it is coercive. A
giant coercive machine must be built that can efficiently
control large masses of people by a very small percentage of
the population. If this machine is left unguarded (and that's
inevitable, by the way) then a Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin can
move right on in ... and the 'people' have nothing to say about
it. Nothing at all.

>>Humane and intelligent people excuse lies, repression, 
>>slave labor, and mass extermination when they are done 
>>in the name ... of the working class.
>>
>>Thomas Sowell, Marxism
>
>Certainly.  Mr. Sowell has made my point by extension,
>actually.  Thanks!


I doubt it. The people Dr Sowell is referring to are, in fact,
the modern socialists, the ones who supported Stalin while he
was murdering millions, and their ilk who currently inhabit the
left wing of American society.



>--
>Rodney R. Korte                   OS/2. Operate at a higher level.
>rkorte@psu.edu                 ---> MIME, PGP (at URL below) welcome.
>http://www.personal.psu.edu/rrk102


w3


w3

"If Texas seceded from the Union, 
I'd move there tomorrow."

Walter Williams